Socialism Is The Answer

Look, before I write this, let me just say; I really hate writing about politics. Its not fun to write about and few things are less interesting to me as a reader than reading about someones personal opinions on politics. I’m going to write better posts soon, maybe even some comedy again, if I can just find my elbow. But in the meantime I want to rant, and I have a forum in which to do so.

Uninformed people regurgitating useless opinions, spelled badly. They annoy me, and I probably don’t do myself any favors when I check out political news from Jewish websites. (You know the ones.) I’m reading the comments on a post, and this was a new one, as they were discussing Obamas economic plans back and forth. One thing that stood out in particular was the amount of bile being spewed over the apparent socialistic tendencies of Obamas idead. Socialism! The devil, apparently, stealing your money to give it to people who don’t deserve it! Lazy, good-for-nothings! Now the interesting thing there, is the audience spewing this bile. The yeshivish crowd, with its kollel lifestyle is entire socialistic. From the obvious of food stamps and Medicare to the less easily calculated parent support, they only survive due to socialism. Especially from the government, that’s what gets me. All these Jews who ardently vote Republican, how many of them make enough to not be hurt by Republican economic policies? Socialism can only help those of you at the lower spheres of the economic classes.

Secondly, and less popular, socialism is awesome. Trust me, I’ve lived between America and the UK most of my life, I have lots of experience with both. You know whats awesome? Having no money and being able to see a doctor. Having no money and being able to get a prescription. Having no money and being able to get glasses or contacts. Having no money and getting a well subsidized education. (Yes, even religious schools. We don’t get that whole “tuition crises” over here.) Do we pay for it? Hells yeah. 17.5% sales tax. Does it hurt? No, because I make more money per hour. The whole thing evens out.

Fact is, socialism says one simple thing: that we as a country are willing to pay to make sure everyone else has the basics when it comes to healthcare and the ability to get an education without money or scrambling for scholarships. That whole idea is anathema to Americans, its every man for himself there. The very thought of paying to help strangers seems to be bile in the American gullet.

And that’s very sad.

(Before commenting: were you planning on posting some handpicked study that apparently shows that everyone in a social healthcare system is dying in the waiting rooms trying to see a doctor or get a transplant? Save it, those are long debunked. They handpick cases where something went wrong and try to make it an example of the whole system. More people die in America even with health insurance, being denied their procedures.)

47 Responses to “Socialism Is The Answer”

  1. Allowing the “achiever class” to get better quality healthcare is unfair. We should all be forced to suffer equally under a socialized form of rationed care.

  2. The care in, well almost every single civilized country but America, is equal or better to what you currently get in America. And if you want, you can still pay for private healthcare. The only difference is that everyone has that safety net of being able to get medical care.

  3. Who said that everyone deserves anything just because they breath the air? I’m glad you think you are getting a sweet deal taking away the money from people who earned it. But, tyranny of the majority is still tyranny. It’s wholesale stealing by the less fortunate. Because let’s face it, there are more poor people that vote.

  4. Child Ish: Noone has anything taken away from anyone. Its a national system funded through sales tax. I use it, everyone uses it. Heres the system in theory: I’m a student, I’m poor. I get to live and see and be healthy, and then I graduate, earn money and pump a portion of my earnings back into the system. If you’re so against socialism why don’t people campaign against subsidized housing and food stamps?

    Now heres the American system: I’m lucky, I have a job so I get some health care. I sure hope my HMO doesn’t deny my claim. OH NO I LOST MY JOB, NO HEALTH CARE! Poor people don’t get healthcare. And some people I stayed with in New York and discussed this with told me how they’re too rich for Medicaid and too poor for insurance. Seemed to be a common story. But no, lets not tax anyone. Damn freeloaders, right?

  5. you are so right about the frummies who vote for republicans. they clearly have no idea what they are talking. but since when do frummy opinions matter?
    i’m against welfare and social programs. they hinder progress. notice how the US economy went down and the rest of the worlds did as well only worse. the world relies on the US b/c our current policies encourage riskand we end up with the greatest inventions and best investment options.

    also. my parents came here from the former soviet union. they wanted economic freedom. they came and made something ofthemselves. and B”h my family is comfortable. and they didn’t have any socialsystems helping them. only some jewish org that left them with vry little.

    when bash the US citizens for being selfish or whatver keep in mind the US is the strongest in philanthropy and Biden the very guy screaming for fairness only gave $3600 in charity the past four yrs. before he tells me to be ‘fair’ he should put his damn money where his mouth is.

  6. Your right, people should campaign against subsidized housing and food stamps. The problem is that that isn’t politically viable. As for health care, if you want health insurance, go buy it yourself. Buying health insurance doesn’t guarantee that you stay healthy. It only guarantees what you (or someone else) pays for it to guarantee. Health care is an economic good like any other. Who said you should be entitled to it any more than any other good? As an aside, perhaps spending lots of money to ensure that an aging population lives an extra few more years isn’t a very wise move of “the system”?

  7. taxes are a form of legalized thievary by the government.
    ppl workedhard. they should pay the bare minimum and then CHOOSE if they want to give help to the poor.
    evry man is entitled to life liberty and property. My money my property.

  8. Child Ish: Don’t you get it? I don’t have to buy health insurance. Through the NHS we all buy healthcare for everyone. Its a system that is used in some form by every single western civilized country in the world except for America!
    What do you think you’re doing right that every other country does wrong?

  9. Anita: No taxes means no government. Thats just anarchy. Less taxes I hear an argument for. But whats the bare minimum? Roads? Roads and police? Roads, police, fire, schools? Why not make every system for profit? Private police forces, paid by local neighborhoods? And so on…

  10. If I don’t go to the doctor I shouldn’t be forced to pay for the doctor. Insurance is like a big meal, in “every other civilized country” people are being forced to eat something that they don’t need. Imagine being forced to consume a big meal just because it was already bought for you. If you are the type of person who would be satisfied with the pair of glasses that you have, but now with insurance you realize that if you don’t take another you are throwing away a good opportunity, I would say that that is waste.

  11. What? You’ve gone against logic here. I think you need to think about the full ramifications of what you just described. Maybe you should watch Sicko?

  12. Frumpunk 5:56

    We do it to the metric system we can do it to any system. Health Insurance is great. Get it for all DESERVING folks. I dont feel like supporting a homeless guy who wont even try to get a job because he likes getting drunk or high instead. I should pay for him to keep living when he has blood alchohol level high enough to kill, dont think so.

  13. Mike: And thats your fundamental problem. This mythical freeloader, who you simply won’t support, what with his drug habit and everything… but regular hardworking people should get insurance help, right? But regular people don’t get it because you’re afraid of supporting the mythical freeloader. And in the end, you have the system you have. Some people have insurance, mostly through work (and thats only a co-payment, right?) while many others don’t have a job with benefits or whatever.
    Now here’s the ironic thing: your mythical drug addict freeloader has healthcare through that great socialist program, Medicaid. Don’t you see, its the middle America, trapped in between who gets hurt! You already have socialist healthcare, for the poor and military and elderly…

    Why not help everyone else?

    (Not to detract from the argument, but this is the 1000th comment on my blog. Yay me!)

  14. So Good old Mike Moore is the reason you believe what you do?! Amazing.
    Yes, I do understand the ramifications of what I said, Perhaps you should read “Mortal Peril” by Richard Epstein.

  15. No, but he made a semi-decent film on the subject.
    So as to your argument… so we should only pay for the services that we need as we need them? You do realize that usually ends up costing more than insurance of any sort. Have you ever tried paying for surgery in cash?
    Do you know how much an ambulance ride costs?

    So do you just regurgitate Epstein or is your opinion based on personal conclusions? Its a moot point. I know which systems work, where people are healthier and happier on average. I’ve yet to meet a European who longs for American-style health care.

  16. FrumPunk

    Yes I am asking for a change but not a blanket statement here where everyone gets healthcare. I dont want to support everone only those who deserve it nor do I want my money to go to people who arent even citizens.

  17. Mike, how would you propose to only help those who you have deigned to “deserve it”? Do you understand what I said before, how in general those are the only people truly left out in Americas healthcare system?

  18. How about someone who is on and off with jobs. The IRS is able to track these things, another system can also. Anyone who is atleast contributing to the economy or trying to, gets health care. Is this going to happen, No. Do I want it to happen, Yes.

  19. Frumpunk. Thank you for the most clear and honest assessment of universal healthcare I’ve seen in the Jewish blogosphere.

    Appreciate it.

  20. Thanks Faith. At least someones not arguing with me. I took a glance at your blog, looks like you’re the definition of the type of person who would agree with me. 🙂

  21. I happen to agree with you FP, but I wonder what the Torah perspective is here? Isn’t the notion of Trumah and Maaser pretty much a socialist one? Anita, you can’t just say pay the bare minimum and the rest is your decision. You HAVE to give 10% to tzedaka, it is not really left up to you. I am not saying the U.S. government is the same thing, but we have a moral obligation to help our fellow Jews, with a whole hierarchy of those in our family, then in our city, etc. So if the Torah way of life is ideal, we are SUPPOSED to be helping those in need.

  22. Frum Librarian – I don’t know about you, but last time I looked into my pay check goverment took from me way more than 10%

    Frumpunk – I understand that you live among commies and when you come into US you socialize with a bunch of lazy freeloaders aka Kollel people.

    In this country poor have medicaid and we make sure that they receive a minimal health care. Those who are better off receive a better health care.

    Honestly I think our poor’s health care is way too good. Why do we bother with filling their tooth cavities. Yank that tooth out. Way cheaper and it won’t bother him again = won’t cost tax payers more money. Another example of too good a health care is reconstructive surgeries. You had a sickness or injury, we cut it out/off. Why should tax payers pay for you looking better? You are receiving goverment programs and get pregnant, Mazel Tov, it won’t happen again, because your tubes will get tied. Once you get yourself out of that poverty hole, you could pay to reverse said procedure. Same applies to men; forced sterilization if they can’t take care of women/children they impregnated/created.

  23. punk- What I find the most amusing is how you believe it is the Republican policies that take away from the middle class. Maybe a few facts will change your mind.

    1- majority of the rich people in this country live off of asset based income, which isn’t taxed in the same way as job-based income.
    The rich pay capital gains tax, which cannot possibly be set as a form of the progressive tax, unless the system of economics in this country completely revolutionizes.
    Meaning, the very “rich” people who will be stuck paying the taxes will be the middle class. Where as with republicans, there is no tax-increase, rather UNIVERSAL tax returns. Which have been PROVEN to boost the economy.

    2- McCain wants to give everyone a $5000 tax credit. EVERYONE can then CHOOSE their health care, or choose not to have it. If they choose to, they get the $5000 credit, if they don’t their loss.
    Under McCains plan, people can CHOOSE, and prioritize.

    3- Canadians DO cross the border on a regular and consistent basis. I don’t know about England, but in Germany “free” health care is only for Legal citizens. Which I happen to be against, but its not so “universal” and wouldn’t work here very well either, because if Obama were to win, he and his bleeding heart liberal pals, will try and pay for the illegals as well.

    4- In the US it is against the law for anyone to be turned down in a hospital. so if someone is really sick, no emergency room in the entire united states would refuse them. And then costs can be worked out afterwards.
    ***

    frum librarian- I do give 10% tzedakah. But its because I’m a Jew. Its not my place as a Jew to force others to do that

    if I am not getting $1000/pay check (example), and I get taxed 20% i only end up getting $800 to spend. and then I pay $80 towards tzedakah.
    If i only got taxed like 10% I’d end up giving more to tzedakah (every penny counts), and not to bureaucratic, corrupt government systems.
    Infact, I’d be able to raise money quicker and pay for people to have health insurance, or to cover their already incurred health care costs.

  24. i meant if i *am* getting that amount.
    sorry

  25. and to point #2- those who do not pay taxes and therefore would not qualify for a tax credit, are the people who DO qualify for Medicaid, and will continue to qualify for it.

    So really, under McCain people get the health insurance as well.

  26. My person view on the subject is very simple. I keep the money I earn, and I decide how to spend it. If I value the health of some poor baby in Africa then I will go adopt it. If I value the health care of the poor, I will give charity. If I can’t afford health care, I will rely on charity. It is an honorable man that realizes that nothing is free in this world. Everything must be earned, everything must be paid for in the end. Tziddaka was made so that people will give, not for some sort of need of redistribution of wealth. If the person doesn’t willingly give of his own free will then there is no mitzva. God doesn’t need you to tell him how to make the poor healthy.

  27. childish- well said :)!

    totally agree with you.

  28. I have to say I agree with Frum Punk.

    Besides shouldn’t they get rid of the free public school system if your so concerned about socialism. I would say that health care is more important than an education. So perhaps use the tax money for that instead and then everyone can get health care.

    FrumPunk: congrats on your 1,000th comment on your blog.

    Mlevin: I totally disagree with you on the children. Why does it have to be about money? before our times plenty of poor people had children. Why should they suffer from not having children because you say they are too poor to support them.

  29. I’ve got very mixed feelings about all this health care business. But I have a question: Is is true that in Canada someone has to wait like 4 months to get surgery for, say, cancer? Because I’ve heard that the max is not supposed to be more than 4 weeks.

    Babysitter: I hope you were joking about getting rid of free public school system. The vast majority of kids do not go to private schools. I think they charge for public education in 3rd world countries.

  30. Katie: I wasn’t joking. But for those that feel that health care is something that is of value that people should earn. Then shouldn’t an education also be of value that you should pay for? why is it free? I’m sure everyone would pay for it if they had to, they wouldn’t just not send their kids to school.

    Or at least those going to private schools should get subsidies to make up for not taking the free public school.

    Basically whatever you argue about healthcare should be applied the same to education.

  31. The main diff. is that education affects America’s children, who don’t get to make these decisions.

    If education wasn’t given out freely, there’d be a lot of people walking around not being able to read.
    This would affect health care b/c they might not be able to read prescriptions, signs, or where it says “emergency room”.

  32. babysitter- public education isn’t a right protected by the constitution. I happen to be against it -in theory- simply because I’m for limited government. But I don’t see it as practical to rid the US of public schools.

    and most people really just WOULDN”T send their kids to school. Most schools in the olden days were in church houses. The schools were partially government sponsered I beleive starting the 1800’s. But still in church houses (mostly). It wasn’t like today.

    The argument against public schools CANNOT be used to advocate against healthcare. For one thing, education is a fundamental form of progress. You can’t get far in life without an education, unless you’re the lucky one that wins the lotto. It is in the countries best interest if its citizens are somewhat educated.

    the US isn’t suffereing a high death rate from people dropping dead of cancer or high credit bills because they had to pay their dues. ITs not a huge occurence. Simply because majority of the time, people find a way to pay for what htey need (church, charitable organizations, etc) YOu can still live, and the country will still progress. HEy, the US has one of the strongest fundamental economies in the world. Russia and China are currently screwed becasue they bought OUR debt as safety. The problem with the falling dollar? NO more, why? Because the rest of the world is more screwed then we are.

    It wont be very expensive unless you’re the unfortunate one that Gd forbid ends up really sick with something that is unaffordable, which, lemme tell ya, won’t be any cheaper under a socialist system either.

    Katie- From what I heard its true. I know in Israel there is a crazy long waiting period for surgery. My relative needed surgery she had to wait almost a year!

  33. *What I meant was that educ. affects children -only-*

  34. Hi Anita!

  35. Babysitter- “I totally disagree with you on the children. Why does it have to be about money? before our times plenty of poor people had children. Why should they suffer from not having children because you say they are too poor to support them.”

    In the olden days children were ASSETS. you fed them and supported them for maybe 10 years and then they would help mommy or daddy (depending on the gender). This generation kids are hard core liabilities. THey do nothing but sucker money out of their parents. It isn’t until the kid is about 14 tht they can get a job, and not until they are 16 that they can work 40 hour weeks, and during the school year.

    Its not like the old days.

  36. The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, ‘I’m from the government and I’m here to help.’
    Ronald Reagan
    40th president of US (1911 – 2004)

    Reagan was one of the greatest presidents this country has ever seen.

    Hi Katie 🙂

  37. FrumSkeptic: btw, I know I still didn’t reply to 2 of your comments on other blogs, I will get back to them.

    So if education is so fundamental in helping people progress then why is it that there are many who can’t afford the healthcare?

    But your right, there are organizations to help them through charity.

    But I don’t get the whole thing about foreign markets doing worse. As far as I know, diversification is better, and although the dollar may be going bad here, in other places it’s great. Like people can go to different countries and sell the same stuff here for more and make tremendous profits. Like where they have higher standards of living, everything gets upped like 2 dollars.

    perhaps there may be a few that need major stuff done. But like I think was pointed out before regular procedures can cost tons of money if paid in cash. So it’s not just for those that need major surgeries or something. Just a doctor or dentist visit can cost a lot. If it costs so much then people will stop going to the doctor and taking care of themselves and the quality of health of people will go down and people will die earlier.

    Even if there’s not a huge death rate and their not worried about those few that can’t afford it, each life does count, no matter how insignificant it may seem.

    I hear often that the government is bad and everything, and I even heard Sara Palin say it on a debate. But what I don’t get is, what is the government made of? isn’t a governer or senator part of the government? so aren’t they insulting themselves? they make it seem as if it’s some imaginary figure that they can blame.

  38. babysitter- Recently the Chinese were complaining they weren’t producing as many goods, because the demand for them was not there. Why? Because the American’s didn’t want to pay the price of the oil. It became worth it to stay with at-home goods. LIke the brick market is an example of that. US brick making companies are coming back.

    They rely on US. When we have a crappy market, and oil prices go up, we are pretty much self-reliant. The other countries you speak of end up having it suck.

    My parents are both computer programmers. You would think it must really suck for them that alot of tech work is going over-seas. It really doesn’t. They don’t care much. They say its just a trend. Why? Because India is a developing economy, pretty soon the “cheap” wages the American’s pay them will not suffice, and the Indians will demand raises from the American companies they work for. THe American CEO”s and such will not give them the raise because it will not be beneficial for them to suppport people in another country (meaning the CEO”s and other execs will have to fly there and such) when they have the same thing here, without the extra expenses, and crazy accents.

    they rely on US. If we go socialist, our economy goes down. we suffer. NOT a pretty picture.

    “But like I think was pointed out before regular procedures can cost tons of money if paid in cash. ”

    Actually, it is often the insurance companies that make the “regular” visits cost as much as they do. There is alot of fraud in the medical field. And alot of tort stuff raises the price of insurance. The medical field needs super reformation. If we throw a socialized form of medicine the only thing that will do is keep all the fraud and crazy high prices. Wack stuff.

    Am I saying it would be cheap with reform? Absolutely not. But it will be waaaay more affordable, and MANY MANY more people would qualify for healthcare if we reform the system. McCain is a reformer, Obama is a socialist. Why choose the socialist if it will just kill the economy?

    ” If it costs so much then people will stop going to the doctor and taking care of themselves and the quality of health of people will go down and people will die earlier. ”

    Ok. That is a good point if it were universal. My family goes to the doctor atleast once a year for an annual check up, somtimes we go twice if my father is in the mood of making appointments. Plus we go if/when we get sick. BUT most people i know ONLY go to the doctor when they are sick. Those people can go 4-5 years without going to the doctor. And not because they can’t afford it (I konw plenty of rich and/or insured people that do that), but because they don’t feel like going to the doctor.

    Those people for some wack reason are the one’s kvetching for socialized medicine. I find that most amusing. If its soooo important to go to the doctor that you feel its a right, then go to the doctor and lead by example and pay for someones health insurance or for someone’s visit.

  39. Anita: gotta go babysitting now so I’ll reply later. But just wanted to remind myself that I also still have to reply to the other comment you made before about babies and money.

  40. FrumSkeptic: Just reading about China reminds me of what the Mishpacha magazine had this week in it, the theme was about China, some really interesting and funny stuff, I didn’t read it yet though, but I heard about it.

    So that’s good if they can keep it in America.

    I thought the problem with the price of gas is that stuff can’t be shipped to America from China. But how does it affect China themselves? they seem to be very advanced with lots of stuff, and they produce stuff for so cheap.

    I wonder how long it will take for the phase to end then, at this rate I think even more jobs will start going overseas. Btw, it was funny talking to this Indian woman when I called up to validate a credit card. She kept saying stuff in the begining I understood, but then she was rattling off about this optional thing and talking so fast that I just said “no thanx” and then she finally got the hint and then I said have a good day and that was the end of that.

    But did you know that if American companies produce stuff in America they get a tax deduction for that, so that should encourage them to produce here in America.

    But your right, it can be good for them that they are left with the good jobs and the cheap ones are going overseas so they don’t have to do the low jobs.

    But did you know that the doctors that have x-rays appear on their computer, the x-ray is being sent to some guy in India who reads it and then e-mails the doctor what it says so that the doctor knows. Can you imagine what is happening behind the scenes.

    I don’t think we will become socialist if we provide universal healthcare, that’s just one aspect, were already providing the public school and were not socialist because of that.

    I forgot what a tort is, it sounds familiar, but I just don’t remember. What’s a tort?

    Interesting point, I didn’t realize that those people don’t actually go to the doctor themselves. Interesting point also about if you want something so bad then pay for someone else to have it.

    Reminds me of some stuff, first of all a little Jewish aspect, I heard a shiur today about if you really want to do a mitzvah then Hashem helps you, and you get the schar as if you did it. So if you get 100’s of letters in the mail for charity places and you really want to help them just don’t have the money then you get the schar as if you have gave to all of them.

    It’s interesting though that it talks about wanting to support kollel there, that’s back in the days when there were very few learning in Kollel, somebody R’ something formed it, not the one in Lakewood, but in Europe. Then a person came over to find out about it, what it’s all about. The Rabbi Explained him the whole entire thing, and the man was a poor man that wouldn’t be able to support the Kollel. SO the students asked the Rabbi why he spent so much time explaining what the Kollel is when the man didn’t have the money to support it. The Rabbi answered that he explained what it is so that the person should have a desire to want to support it, even if he didn’t have the money, cause the desire is what counts.

    I forgot what I was going to say with a second thing, O well.

    Now about babies and Money. Interesting point about the children being Assets in the olden days, and that now they are liabilities. But really it doesn’t have to be like that. It’s up to each parent to raise their child to be an asset or a liability. It doesn’t mean you have to work your children to be an asset. But if you raise your children right, to not be spoiled, and to respect others and do what’s right then you will gain much out of them, in a emotional accomplishing sense.

    Plus see my latest post about “The Barren Woman” not going to put up a link for fear that they may thing my blog is spam again. But it’s on my Jewish one. So if they had to wait so long to have children,, and then they had it. There’s got to be something good and worthwhile about having children that you shouldn’t inflict on yourself not to have it. It’s Hashem’s choice. He’s giving you a Bracha and you shouldn’t turn it away because you think it’s not the right time and your afraid the children will become liabilities. “if there’s a will there’s a way”.

  41. omg, I wrote such a long comment.
    Anita you wrote a pretty long one yourself too before.

    FrumPunk: I just realized how you know how many comments are on the blog. This will be comment #1045. I see how it says it on the location bar, that my previous one was comment #1044.

    I wonder who was the lucky 1000th commenter… On FB I remember making awards for people who got lucky comment numbers. But now you don’t even know how many wall posts you have.

  42. the education in US is not socialist at all. if it was, we’d have free public university , which we do not.

    free school for kids age 5-18 cant be consiered “socialist” by any standards

  43. Babysitter-“It doesn’t mean you have to work your children to be an asset.”

    Its not about working your kids or not working them. There is NO way a child in today’s day and age would NOT end up a liability, in the society we live in today. Even the most unspoiled, down to earth child, would have to have their parents pay for school (even w/o tuition, theres supplies, trips, clothes), then there’s food, shelter, cell-phone, car (or some payment). in the olden days a kid would grow to the ripe old age of like 5 and help daddy work in the field. And the girl would help mommy knit sweaters for the winter. It wasn’t like today were a kid goes to school from 9-3, then takes after school activities, then needs to do HW, and by the time they get home they’ll have a pathetic excuse of a chore like laundry. They will in most likely hood never pay their parents back. Very few end up rich enough or with parents sick enough that they need to end up paying bills.

    I’m not advocating not having large families, and I’m sure mlevin was not, but I think it is crucial for couples to sit down and look into their finances and such before they go on and have an enormous amount of kids. WE no longer live in shtetls nor should we pretend too.

  44. “I thought the problem with the price of gas is that stuff can’t be shipped to America from China. But how does it affect China themselves? they seem to be very advanced with lots of stuff, and they produce stuff for so cheap.”

    That is the problem. The price of gas overrides the benefits of having it brought here. The reason we purchase chinese goods is because of the cheapness. We like what is cheap. If gas is expensive, the price of the goods automatically goes up, because the distributers the gods need to maintain a profit. Which leads many of these companies to just stick to American goods, because it ends up costing about the same as overseas goods, without the hassal.

    So, because of the gas prices American’s do not demand Chinese goods, and so the chinese end up losing money.

    And about the US tax break that companies receive if they purchase American goods, I heard about it, but never actually looked into it. BUt I would imagine that the reason many companies stick to asian markets is because even with teh tax-breaks its still cheaper. Though I really don’t know.

    Oon socialized medicine. -Nothing is free- If the US adapts a form of socialized medicine and Obama wins, he will “redistribute the wealth” which means that the companies and the “rich” will be taxed higher.

    now, what happens if someone wants to maintain a certain profit margin but they keep on getting taxed heavily? They raise prices. it is an unavoidable occurance that either companies will raise the prices of their goods to retain a profit margin, or the government will raise some other form of taxes, which would totally kill the economy.

    The only solution would be to just remain with a free-market economy. And yes…socialized medicine would turn us into a socialized country. the entire concept of wealth redistribution would turn us into a socialized country.

    Public Schools are a totally different issue. mostly because those are still, in most cases, capitalist based. Outside of NYC, United States PUblic Schools are funded by property tax. Meaning, if you live in a really good neighborhood, and your taxes are higher, your P.S. is better. Similarly if you live in a crappy neighborhood, your PS is not as good. So, in the end, its all about budgeting and prioritizing, how important is the new car when you can go a bit higher to get the house in the better district.

    btw…to look up torts, just wikipedia it 🙂

  45. Have you ever heard of a person going from the US for surgery in the UK? I never heard of such a thing, ever wonder why?

  46. FrumSkeptic: First of all I still have to check out your links on healthcare. But first I’m commenting back on this.

    ahh I see, ok that makes sense. I can see how the Chinese might loose money because of the US not buying their stuff.

    Yea, the Asian markets are probably still cheaper than the amount they would get from tax break. But it’s also probably cheap because of the horrible wages the workers are getting and from them being treated poorly in sweatshops. So then would we want to support such a thing? so we may affect them, but were not the cause of the way they do business.

    interesting point about the redistribution of wealth and how it will be coming back on the people in either case. So sounds like a loose loose situation.

    Your right about the Public school’s being funded by the place their in. I remember watching a vid in core People Power Politics about this, how there are public schools in bad neighbor hoods where the children are being left back numerous years because their not getting good funding and don’t have good teachers. Made me really feel bad for those kids.

    Now I remember what a Tort is, we learned about it in Business law. My prof kept mentioning it, so I knew it sounded familiar just couldn’t place from where.

  47. FrumSkeptic: perhaps you may be right about the whole children thing, I can see what your saying.

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